Cars and Coffee Briefly Turns Into Cars and Salty

"bwp240" (bwp240) 04/24/2018 at 13:20 • Filed to: Cars and Salty

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Full saltiness yet to be determined...

We hear this story time and again... another Cars and Coffee event ruined by idiots doing idiot things. Well Cars and Coffee of Kansas City decided to take a proactive role in quelling down the silliness which I am thankful for. However, their tact and delivery could use a little work.

Note: I am happy that the organizers are taking a proactive approach to quelling the stupidity of a few. This is suppose to be a fun event for all car enthusiasts. This is not shitting on them, they are doing what they need to do to keep this community event going.

Yesterday they posted this image to their Facebook page outlining what they expect from people at the show...

The first 3 are very reasonable requests. Be mindful of people’s cars and don’t be a dick. The last 2...

What is a “show car?” A stanced Miata, an original 1976 Ford Econline van, a pure stock 99 Civic that is apparently worth near 30k? This proposal challenged the fundamental feelings of Cars and Coffee for many. To my knowledge Cars and Coffee is an informal gathering of car enthusiasts to look at neat cars and network with other enthusiasts. It is not a car show like Pebble Beach or Good Guys or Motorama... Most enthusiasts see Cars and Coffee being for normal people, not centered around prize winning garage queens.

Needless to say, these rules and the thought of car bouncers lead to much anger, confusion, and saltyness. The comments were quite the rager. Several people showed why these rules were put in place (whether they were trolling or not). Several comments ranged from “Burnouts are the best part” to “Supercars need to stretch their legs.”

Others did show legitimate concerns. Say you own an all original rusty Chevy 210 project. It technically meets none of the “requirements.” It is not fast, unique, rare, obscure, and (compared to the similar Bel Air) not collectible. For a more modern example, is a V6 Honda Accord with an eBay body kit and wing more “worthy of entry” than a Saturn Vue Redline even though they more or less have the same engine, transmission, and downforce? What if you own a sleeper like a Coyote swapped Crown Vic or a Regal GS? Are you too normal for the show lot? When you start telling people that their car which they originally parked in the “show” is not worthy of being there, they get angry...

To try to remedy the issue they posted this clarification image...

This did not help... The different car community sects are very dug in about their cars, and initiatives like this show that. Immediately comments such as “A Ford Taurus is not a real show car,” “if you need to ask, your car is not worthy,” and “ban all the stanced crap” began showing up. Arguments abound about, how can a stock Genesis Coupe could be allowed in, but MY rusty Toyota Tercel 4WD Manual that I drove 1.5 hours to be here be deemed a lowly spectator... [this is not up for debate the Genesis is just as awesome.]

People enjoy their cars and their community. They enjoy each segment of car culture from tuners, stanced, bro trucks, classics, exotics, etc. Cars and Coffee is the amalgamation of all of these cultures where they can get together and enjoy cars. It is not about one or the other, it is about all of us.

I like the utopian though of a holistic entire community approach, but here is the problem. There is not enough space... The organizers at KC Cars and Coffee have put together a nice event and there is simply not enough space to accommodate everyone. They are dealing with a two-fold issue that comes with an growing event, physical space and idiots. The idiots put on a show last month (I will not link their idiocy, search for yourself), and for that we get the rules.

The other motivator of this issue is this “spectator parking.” Most car enthusiasts recognize that their normal car is not what they would call a “show worthy” automobile, and have no issues parking with the general crowd. Whenever I go to a Cars and Coffee, I usually walk through the general lot because sometimes you see neat cars that owners just didn’t want to put front and center. Honestly, I think that if they just designated areas for showing and spectating, most attendees would sort accordingly.

Map with proposed spectator area in blue.

The problem that many have with this spectator area is that it doesn’t exist... It is a field, and many people are reasonably worried about being forced into a muddy field with their stock Miata, Mustang, or Focus ST. Is there a solution, this month, no. Thankfully the weather looks nice and the rain is staying away so there should be no issues.

Again, I applaud the organizers of KC Cars and Coffee for taking a proactive step in trying to quell the idiocy that began cropping up. Yes, it wasn’t necessarily handled in the smoothest of ways, but as the show and facility evolve it will just make sense. Cars and Coffee is not a contest. It is not a race. And it is not a drift exhibition. It is a meet in the truest sense.

Chariotoflove > bwp240 04/24/2018 at 13:34

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I’m not keen on the idea of getting up early, driving across town on my Saturday to be judged by someone I don’t know. I’d like to see and talk to people who love their cars.

MonkeePuzzle > bwp240 04/24/2018 at 13:34

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I went a few times to C&C events. Results varied. I was driving a modified Honda Civic, was directed a few times to spectator parking, and once to show parking (which I declined). Maybe it was just a slow day :D

Party-vi > bwp240 04/24/2018 at 13:34

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OK BUT A TAURUS IS LITERALLY A SHO CAR

Bman76 (hates WS6 hoods, is on his phone and has 4 burners now) > bwp240 04/24/2018 at 13:34

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It’s their event, they can run it how they like. ¯\_()_/¯ 

TheBloody, Oppositelock lives on in our shitposts. > Party-vi 04/24/2018 at 13:36

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ALL SHO CARS MATTER.

McMike > bwp240 04/24/2018 at 13:37

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LOL @ the Hyundai Genesis Coupe.

bwp240 > Bman76 (hates WS6 hoods, is on his phone and has 4 burners now) 04/24/2018 at 13:37

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That is the TL:DR

crowmolly > bwp240 04/24/2018 at 13:38

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The organizers at KC Cars and Coffee have put together a nice event and there is simply not enough space to accommodate everyone. They are dealing with a two-fold issue that comes with an growing event, physical space and idiots.

It’s a lose-lose for them. No matter what they do they will piss people off.

They want the rarest and most spectator worthy cars in the show area. Problem is writing rules for that is damn near impossible, especially since “spectator worthy” totally varies from person to person.

itschrome > bwp240 04/24/2018 at 13:39

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Yeah those last two rules are pure gate-keeping nonsense. I took my Caddy to one of these events once was declined access to the “show lot”. which is Bullshit. Less that 2500 2004 Cadillac Seville SLS’s were made and even less than that still exist. Yeah a Mustang made in the tens of thousands is worthy? fuck that, I left. Who do they think they are to define what counts as a collectible or other wise noteworthy car.  

CarsofFortLangley - Oppo Forever > bwp240 04/24/2018 at 13:39

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I wish I could be there for the explanation of why somebody’s car was too shitty to be shown.

bwp240 > Chariotoflove 04/24/2018 at 13:40

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That was my initial reaction. What if their bouncer hated modded Civics and loved Bro Trucks. I really wouldn’t trust them being objective.

Guess I will find out. It is going to be fun regardless.

For Sweden > Party-vi 04/24/2018 at 13:40

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bwp240 > MonkeePuzzle 04/24/2018 at 13:43

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I have never been to a show where I was directed to certain areas. I have seen reserved areas for supercars, Mustang clubs, etc. which is all fine and good. I think for this case most people are up in arms that they want to be organized + the dirt field being the spectator lot.

MasterMario - Keeper of the V8s > bwp240 04/24/2018 at 13:43

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I think you hit it on the head. Had points 4 and 5 just been summed up as “if you are there to spectate and not show a car please park in the spectator parking area” there would have been no fuss

Mercedes Streeter > itschrome 04/24/2018 at 13:44

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Exactly. A better rule is “first come, first serve”, not “we’re going to have some bro decide if your car is cool enough to get into the club or not”.

I only do local shows nowadays, I find them better anyway. Nowhere else can you see a rare Ferrari, a donked Suburban, a Sky Redline, some sportbikes, mopeds, and some old AMC metal all in one place!

Discerning > bwp240 04/24/2018 at 13:45

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Someone tried to give me beef about where I parked my Q50 at Caffeine and Octane in Atlanta. Sorry it’s not as flashy as your 10 year old mustang on racinghart C2's, guy. I respectfully declined his request for me to park elsewhere.

bwp240 > CarsofFortLangley - Oppo Forever 04/24/2018 at 13:47

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Your car has a weekend Dougscore of <25, move along...

itschrome > Mercedes Streeter 04/24/2018 at 13:48

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Nowhere else can you see a rare Ferrari, a donked Suburban, a Sky Redline, some sportbikes, mopeds, and some old AMC metal all in one place!

I always thought this was the whole reason for these type of events! too see what every one wants to show and enjoy a range of varied tastes in vehicles! there are enough targeted events that if you only want to see super cars or muscle cars or stanced or what ever you can easily go to one of those specific events! I don’t go cause that’s boring I want to see what people have to share.

Chariotoflove > crowmolly 04/24/2018 at 13:50

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C&C shouldn’t have rules like that anyway. If you want to, fine, then organize a different kind of event.

Chariotoflove > MasterMario - Keeper of the V8s 04/24/2018 at 13:50

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This is the correct answer.

bwp240 > Discerning 04/24/2018 at 13:55

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The other day I saw a G37 Coupe and wondered what the bouncer verdict would be if it and a 370Z showed up at the same time.

Dru > bwp240 04/24/2018 at 13:56

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Yeah those last two leave a lot open for interpretation. My ZHP is, objectively, a normal ass old German car. But there were only some 6500 sedans made over 3 years. Only 351 were Imola Red II, anthracite cloth, with 6 speed manuals.

Do I qualify for the elite club? Who decides? Will we ever find out who shot JR?

Discerning > bwp240 04/24/2018 at 13:58

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My car looks just like 99% of pseudo-luxury cars in traffic. But it’s special to me and makes over 400 at the wheels. But some people don’t appreciate the sleeper aspect. In all fairness, the car only has a tune. But there are also countless cars there that are completely stock. Oh well.

crowmolly > Chariotoflove 04/24/2018 at 14:03

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Pretty much, yeah. C&C was always meant to be informal from what I gather.

Usually you see these rules at cruise nights or shows.

fintail > bwp240 04/24/2018 at 14:08

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Could be worse. In Seattle there’s a local C&C where the page hasn’t been updated since last year, and an “exotics” (at RTC) event that is definition of “selective” style dbaggery. As far as I know, that’s all there is and there aint no more, in terms of an informal C&C bring what you’ve got event.

SmugAardvark > bwp240 04/24/2018 at 14:10

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Most of the C&C events I’ve been to are very lax regarding what can and can’t park in the lot. They seem to care far more with making sure people aren’t driving like idiots or partaking in unnecessarily dangerous activities (which is as it should be).

The only one I’ve seen them directing cars at was a huge event in the Bay Area that is consistently known to bring out some amazingly cool rides. And even then, a lot of fairly typical stuff is allowed in.

I do give credit to one of the local organizers though. A guy brought out a CTS-V wagon, then proceeded to do burnouts through the lanes on their way out, kicking up pebbles at cars and people. Photos were taken, and the owner was effectively banned from future events.

Bman76 (hates WS6 hoods, is on his phone and has 4 burners now) > itschrome 04/24/2018 at 14:12

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Eh, rare =/= interesting.

“Who do they think they are to define what counts as a collectible or other wise noteworthy car.”

They’re the organizers of the event, they can do whatever they want. If they decide that they’re going to ban all red cars, that’s their prerogative.

bwp240 > SmugAardvark 04/24/2018 at 14:17

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That is what it should be. I appreciate that these organizers are reaching out to the local PD for help in quelling stupidness. There are places to have fun, but a road/parking lot surrounded by cars and people is not one of them.

bwp240 > crowmolly 04/24/2018 at 14:19

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The last time I went there was an awesome 70s Ford Econoline van. All original but daily driven. The inside was all original shag and smelt of it. It was really neat, but met none of the “requirements.”

Some people are asking about their cars and receiving several, yes come show it responses. I have a feeling this might blow up in their collective faces.

bwp240 > MasterMario - Keeper of the V8s 04/24/2018 at 14:23

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Yeah, “Please park in spectator because the show lot is full” goes over a lot better than “Your car doesn’t belong in the show lot.”

Language is a powerful thing...

Azrek > bwp240 04/24/2018 at 14:23

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As with anything...it starts out as folks who love something and later morphs into an elitist situation.

bwp240 > Azrek 04/24/2018 at 14:25

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Pfft, not here, we are better than those serf gatherings... /s

MasterMario - Keeper of the V8s > Chariotoflove 04/24/2018 at 14:25

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Do I get a cookie?

itschrome > Bman76 (hates WS6 hoods, is on his phone and has 4 burners now) 04/24/2018 at 14:34

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I understand that. But again what the fuck is so interesting about a mustang that’s 98 to 100% stock? or just sporting some lame bolt ons every one else runs too? it’s gate-keeping behavior that hurts to community more than helps. Sure maybe most people dont give a fuck about my car, but what about some more interesting “normal” cars that some people may enjoy seeing. People own and maintain those cars so enjoy and share and should be granted the same rights as some guy with a stock scat pack charger. Oh so it’s pay to play then? ugh..

Chariotoflove > MasterMario - Keeper of the V8s 04/24/2018 at 14:45

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Oh, sorry.

MasterMario - Keeper of the V8s > Chariotoflove 04/24/2018 at 14:50

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Bman76 (hates WS6 hoods, is on his phone and has 4 burners now) > itschrome 04/24/2018 at 15:06

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Eh, I feel like this particular event is running into a problem with space. If I knew that the Ferrari club was coming with 15 cars and my lot only has 200 spaces, I’m telling the rusty Civic to park elsewhere.

Akio Ohtori - RIP Oppo > itschrome 04/24/2018 at 15:14

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Yup. This is an excellent example. I am a reasonable car enthusiast, had no idea what that car was, and if required to pass judgement would have sent it to the spectator lot. And therein lies the problem! No one person is going to know what makes each car special and worthy of being in the “show lot”.

Akio Ohtori - RIP Oppo > bwp240 04/24/2018 at 15:17

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What is the problem with pre-registering “show” cars? Simple google form with the year, make, model, pictures, and a brief explanation. Everything gets reviewed by say, three people, and you get a little certificate that lets you into the show lot.

Then, on the day of, parking in the show lot is first come, first served. Show up 2 hours into the event in your Lamborarri? Lot is full! Get in the field!

Yes there will be abuse but less so than this... shitmess.

bwp240 > Akio Ohtori - RIP Oppo 04/24/2018 at 15:35

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Seems like it would be much better to just have first come first serve without the extra drama of certificates.

xc90v8/I4 :( > Bman76 (hates WS6 hoods, is on his phone and has 4 burners now) 04/24/2018 at 15:48

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One 458 is enough for me. 

cletus44 aka Clayton Seams > bwp240 04/24/2018 at 16:12

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Unpopular opinion time: It hurts but it’s true. My local Cars and Coffee plugs up with barely modified Focus STs and new whale-gen Honda Civics and then more interesting cars have to park on the outskirts. If I wanted too see a bunch of Ford STs and AMG 43s I’d go to a mall parking lot at 4 PM. Nobody likes to hear that their car isn’t cool but plainly some cars just aren’t.

t0ast > bwp240 04/24/2018 at 16:17

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That was quite a thread of comments to wake up to this morning. As someone who shows up for at least one out of every three of these, I’m 100% on board with the “be considerate / don’t ruin this for the rest of us” rules, though the last two have me feeling slightly conflicted.

The relaxed and informal nature of these gatherings are/were the main draw forme. The low bar of entry keeps pretensions at bay and you get everything from the wonderful to the weird. However, the fact of the matter is that we’re the only major city in a ~100+ mile radius and an open-ended gathering of enthusiasts was eventually bound to reach a tipping point like this. I too hate to see the end of the holistic era, but some decisions had to be made, lest they be made for us by a host venue, city, or police, so it was at least good to see them take the initiative.

I don’t think their method of driving in the show/spectate wedge was a particularly good one, considering the esoteric and not always pristine variety of interesting cars in the area, but I can at least sort of understand what they’re aiming for given the limited space. In any case, what will help make or break this event for many is how well they can implement and adapt these ideas. If they can keep things towards the more relaxed end of the spectrum, especially if/when we return to the larger and more open Rosana Square, then we’ll probably be alright. If not, then I’ll just have to make some popcorn and enjoy sleeping in.

If I can convince myself to wake up in time this Saturday, I’ll have to bring my NC, which is modified mechanically and kept clean, but decidedly un-flashy and bearing many small scars of it’s age and 100k+ miles of travel to test the waters.

Akio Ohtori - RIP Oppo > bwp240 04/24/2018 at 16:19

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Well when you say it like that... yeah that makes sense.

bwp240 > t0ast 04/24/2018 at 16:36

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I usually try to go a few of these, especially the first one of the year and the last. I couldn’t go to the March one.

I am not sure if they will be going back to Rosanna Square. The last C&C video I saw there had someone spin out on Metcalf/Blue Ridge Pkwy and other sorts of hooligannery.

If you check their FB and dig through the actual event posting and comments, the actual rulings seems to be really lax compared to what was presented in the policies. I think this will bite them in the face.

You would think with all the exposure and JoCo money that Stonegate could build up the facility haha.

bwp240 > cletus44 aka Clayton Seams 04/24/2018 at 16:45

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I don’t think that is unpopular. I think the vast majority would agree. The butthurt comes from when you are talking about MY car (and I am using that in a general sense). Why is MY car inferior? What makes THEIR car better. Well, nothing. I would geek out over the 1 pristine TC by Maserati there than the 20 washed and waxed Mustangs the club brought today.

And that is where this will all come to a head, if the Mustang Club, etc. shows up how do you address that collective of MY car is BEST car. That is something for the organizers to figure out.

t0ast > bwp240 04/24/2018 at 17:37

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Yep, I know exactly what video you’re talking about, though I’ve heard everything from “it’s the bad behavior” to “it’s a coincidence with some construction project going on there” keeping us from returning. I’m mostly just hoping it’s the later for the sake of my drive times from Independence. Stonegate is neat and all, and I’d love to see them get to the point where they can build their promised track facility (since I might be able to afford some trips to that, unlike the garage condos themselves), but they sure are taking their sweet time. JoCo money indeed lol.

I don’t think I’d be too surprised either if the show/spectate rules come back to bite them in some way. I have yet to see anybody acting in an official capacity (unless you count coffee and doughnut distribution) so any attempt at changing that will almost certainly not go smoothly.

bwp240 > t0ast 04/24/2018 at 17:54

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Yeah, it is a bit concerning. It would be nice to diversify the location a little, go out to the Speedway/Legends or Independence Center. Metro North would have been great if the lot was in better condition and not full of Transit vans.

I also saw this FB post, which explains a lot...

Wudstock22 > bwp240 04/24/2018 at 18:10

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I feel like this flies directly in the face of the spirit Cars & Coffee was likely born from.

gmporschenut also a fan of hondas > bwp240 04/24/2018 at 20:16

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I had a friend show up in a vw R32 and one of the organizers motioned to pull around inot the show area, he puts the window down, “well that guy said I had to park over here” “well he’s a fucking moron.”

meanwhile at another show I was at one of the mopar guys was complaining that they let in a New challenger, glossing over the fact that it was a hellcat. Snobbishness is one of the leading causes for the death of car meets.

t0ast > bwp240 04/24/2018 at 22:46

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Curiouser and curiouser...

Now you’ll have to pardon me, my early access video game PTSD seems to be flaring up. No idea why.

sm70- why not Duesenberg? > bwp240 04/27/2018 at 12:27

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As an organizer of a C&C myself, we are mostly doing it by our discretion. And yes, that means a few people who want to park in the show with their lowered ‘11 Accord Coupe are gonna get turned away. But yeah, these guys worded it very poorly